at the risk of great controversy

** this post is just way too long and I am giving major props to those of you who've already read it or chose to. I hope I'd do the same for you.

I finally (finally) watched the netflix movie, The Business of Being Born. Its about time, I know.
I wanted to have the time to sit down, take notes and really be able to pay attention to the information given and do the movie some justice. I've heard very negative feedback on this movie and very positive feedback and then some feedback that's sort of... somewhere in the middle.

I also have no qualms admitting that I was actually afraid to watch, for fear of being either totally turned off by it (thinking it might be a very exaggerated view point) or for fear of being so turned off and unhappy with hospitals, OB's and surgeons, that having another child in a hospital would terrify me.

I am happy to report that the movie is very well done, very informative and very educational! Which one of us doesn't want to learn? Which one of you ladies doesn't really want to know how to better birth your babies? You'd think I'd be interested in meeting the ones that say "I don't!" but I have no interest. To me, you are ignorant and selfish. Blunt? Sure. But so are the ladies that act like understanding your own body, your baby's body and both of your needs is a bad thing.
I don't think the movie at all expresses that across the board, all Dr's, OB's and hospitals are evil. I think they're only making the point that women are being fooled into believing they can't and even shouldn't try for an all natural birthing experience.

I was very impressed with how many times the people in this video pointed out that there is nothing wrong with OB's. There is nothing wrong with hospitals and there is nothing wrong with C-sections, inductions and other such intravenous methods... as long as they are absolutely necessary. That's very key there. I cannot tell you how many women I meet these days that act like having their baby is no different from scheduling a teeth cleaning with their dentist.
They get very annoyed at the thought of "being bothered" with the spontaneity of natural birth and are continually making comments about how this child is not going to inconvenience our daily schedule. The people in the movie point out (more than once) that we are just too reliant upon our Dr's and we give up having the best experience we can have. My opinion? Because we're uneducated and we swallow the stupid pill hospitals started handing out years ago. The "shut up and do whatever your Dr. tells you to do" pill. I'm the first to admit, I've taken that pill more than once, only to later on, realize I am the mother of my own children and I am responsible for them until they're able to take care of themselves. I'm not a fan of "whatever's easiest is best for my family!" if you are a fan of that mentality, please stop reading now - you won't like the rest of this post.

Jason and I had one of the best hospital birth experiences we could imagine, with Kara. We were very thankful for the staff at the hospital where she was born (Kaiser) and very thankful that most of our birth plans and wishes were met, with very little to no arguments. We had one nurse that wanted to interrupt me with stupid paperwork right smack in the middle of contractions. She became very upset when Jason dared to act like he had any say or right to my life or the life of our unborn baby. She was quickly sent to a different room and we got a nurse that was much more to our liking. I was however, completely shocked at the amount of nurses, OB's and even midwives that were popping into our room to have a look at "the woman who's going at it 100% naturally!" I felt like a celebrity and in a very strange way. At one point I looked up at my midwife and asked "Is it really that uncommon?!" She laughed and told me that in the 12 months their hospital location had been open, they've had one other woman go all natural and it was only because she walked in with a baby coming out and had no time for drugs. ONE woman. Is that scary to you? It was to me.

**I have to stop here and say that I have a hard time understanding and respecting people that want to go at birth in an all natural way and yet they take not one single class. They go into it with a very prideful attitude. Its one thing to say that your body was created to do this, but its another to act like you know everything about it. As a mother, you have motherly instincts for sure... but which one of you doesn't want to take a newborn class or to just simply ask a lot of questions and learn as you go? Seems like whenever I hear about a woman trying to have her home birth and then it goes awry... 9 times out f 10 I hear that she and her husband didn't take one class. I'm not sure what to say to those women other than "were you trying to set yourself up for disappointment?!" Jason and I did this with Ethan. I took a nursing class and we took a newborn care class, but just decided that birthing classes were dumb. We had the attitude of "my body will know what to do and when it doesn't, the Dr's can tell us." This is why I don't sit around bashing my OB and Dr's with Ethan's labor and delivery. 99% of my experience, I believe was my fault. I was an unprepared mother and so what do you expect? An unprepared birth. You got it.

The best argument I hear nowadays is that some families have had high risk pregnancies and high risk labors and deliveries and so for them, they can't imagine the Dr's and hospitals not being there. I appreciated in the BOBB (Business of Being Born) movie, none of the people actually put down hospitals or said they're not needed. None of them said that. They do say, over and over again, how the importance for Dr's and surgeons during labor and delivery is very exaggerated in the US. To the point where "women are being taught and brain washed into thinking their bodies cannot handle their own baby's births." That is sad. Especially for Christian women who go their whole pregnancy believing that God is One knitting and molding that little being. Why would He disappear come D day?!

I'm hearing a lot of people talk about inductions these days and when you get down to the bottom of it, their main reason is "I'm sick of being pregnant. I'm uncomfortable and lets face it, this baby is done cooking, so he/she can get out." Nice attitude.

When I was about 7 months pregnant with Kara, I was at the park with my 2 older kids and a lady came over and asked me when I was due. I told her that I had about 2 months to go and she asked about my other pregnancies; was I on time, how did my labor and deliveries go, etc... half way through our conversation, she realized that I was aiming to go all natural with Kara's birth.

Let me stop here and say that I think it is down right hysterical (in a bad way) how people think WE are the outspoken, rude people, because we dare to say we're trying to have our babies without the use of drugs, surgery or induction. Apparently that's rude, cold hearted and even unloving to say to someone who doesn't agree with you. However, those same ladies (and sometimes their husbands) will get right in your face and use the rest of your visit to point out how crazy you are and to quickly put you in your place; explaining the joys of going into a Hospital on the day and time of your choosing, laying in the bed in complete comfort, watching the daytime shows you can't live without (all the while, cursing your unborn child for taking so long to "pop" out) and making sure they look totally beautiful for the hour their baby decides to be born... or for when the Dr. delivers the apparently shocking news that the "baby is just not wanting to come out" so you're now being wheeled into surgery. Bad, bad baby. You see where I'm going with this? Those same ladies will sit at parks and play dates, blaming their poor child for being the reason they were unable to give them a healthy and natural delivery.
I sit there in total shock when they start "preaching" to me about the horribleness that is all natural labor and deliveries. My favorite ladies are the ones that belong to the HHCMLSB club. Never heard of it? I'm sure you have. Its the How Horrible Can My Labor Story Be club. Believe me... its quite popular. They just love acting like they were the only ones being faced with a labor that was actually painful, long in duration and at times, hard to handle! Amazing, I know. When you meet one, you'll understand what I'm talking about. They're the ones that, no matter what you say about your experience, they can top it. They will always end their story with "anyone who actually wants to put themselves through that misery can be my guest. I'm way smarter than that now!" Oh, good for you. I'll come visit you in your high seat in Heaven someday.

While I know some of you (maybe many of you) have no other choice but to have C-sections or labors with Dr. supervision there with you, please do not think I'm putting you down, calling you a wimp, or even insinuating that I think you didn't get the full birth experience that you could have had. I think we get the experience we give ourselves. I've known ladies that have no other choice but to have c-sections and they've done a marvelous job making it a wonderful experience for them, their husband and their baby. I think your birthing experience is what you make it. That's the whole point of this movie. Its why I liked it so much. Women are just being reminded that most of the time, their bodies were made for this and they know exactly what to do.

With Kara's birth, Jason and I told our midwife that we did not want her checking us every hour, like they did with Ethan and Rachel. I'm not sure what that benefits, other than making you feel like the clock is ticking and yes, you still aren't holding your baby in your arms.
I was checked upon arrival and when they told me I was only 3 Cms dilated, I was encouraged to go walk the halls, in the hopes of getting further along, thus being able to have an all natural birth, like we wanted. I was checked a 2nd time before being admitted, when we realized I had gone from 3-6 1/2 Cms in one hour. Yay! After that, she checked me when I was in a lot of pain and felt the need to push, but still felt like the baby was too high up (this is before we knew Kara was coming out posterior.) I was about 8 Cms at that point and she never checked me again.
Our other request was for them to not tell me when it was time to push, no counting during pushing and hands off while I was pushing. After we told the midwife these requests she said, with a laugh "AH! so you're the couple that understands your body actually knows what to do??!" I was very pleased that she complied to our request and the only time she was "hands on" was when Kara was coming out and she realized her presentation was causing some problems. Even then, she allowed my body and Kara's body to figure things out - didn't use "tools" or whisk me away into surgery. We did have a Dr. in the doorway, however, barking about how I had "10 more minutes and then they were going to give me a C-section." That woman made it her goal to act like Jason and I were baby killers, who needed to be reported to CPS as soon as possible. So sad.

I'm going off on a lot of tangents here (no worries... I am actually aware that I do that) and I know that this topic can get very, heated. I don't want to post this to make any of you feel badly about your experience. I do, however, want to challenge those of you who've not seen the movie -- especially those of you who fit the description of the lady I met at the park (see above) to step back and really reconsider some of the rude things you say to women who have chosen to give their babies the very best birth experience they can. I know saying its the "best birth experience" it was annoys most of you, but I can't really say it any other way. Obviously it is the best. If our Dr. had other options for Ethan and Kara's ears, instead of having surgery and tubes put in, believe me... we would have taken option #2

Whenever there is added risk involved with medications, surgery, induction, etc... obviously the better option is to not have those, right? if you have a headache, is the best option to take Tylenol to mask the pain? Or would you agree that drinking some water and resting would be your first choice? Sometimes that doesn't work and so you opt for meds. Just because they don't kill our babies, doesn't then make it the best option. And in case some of you don't know my history, let me put your mind at ease... Our first and 2nd born children were brought into this world with the help of an epidural. So rest assured, I'm in both sides of the camp.

I guess my biggest beef with some people is that they think its okay to put down natural birth (I assume its only because they've chosen not to have them) and yet they get so upset when we stick up for the benefits to having an all natural birth.
If you don't like it, then don't bash the other side. Maybe they don't like it either.

I had the awesome privilege of attending my friend's at home delivery back in July and I was... pleasantly surprised. Jason and I considered doing an at home birth with Kara, but for various personal reasons, opted not to.
I went to my friend's house very excited to see how home births went, but very convinced that I would leave, realizing how much safer a hospital birth actually is. I was fully expecting to come home and tell Jason "I'm glad it worked for them... but its not something I'd ever subject myself to." One thing I've heard over and over is "home births are fine if your baby is totally healthy, but babies die in home births more often than hospital births, because a Dr. isn't there to check them out after they're born." That statistic is first of all, not true at all. Most complicated births are brought on by complications that are brought on by medical intervention. Wrap your mind around that. Most... not all.
I came away from my friend's home birth, realizing how very safe and actually how very hands on they are. I don't mean hands on in the same way you'd see in a hospital, but rather, seeing that one midwife (and her staff) sitting their in your home, devoting all their time and energy to you. How much better could it be?! I remember when I was in labor with Rachel - I was thrilled to be handling the pain so well, I had a good system going, where I knew just what to do during contractions and then just what to do to ease the pain in the middle of the contractions. I was 8 cms dilated and doing great; ready to welcome our first little baby girl into the world! My OB came in and checked me and let me know how marvelous I was doing, but then said she had looked over my medical records and noticed that I had a very difficult labor and delivery with Ethan, our first. She told me that she thought it would be a great idea for me to "suck it up and just get an epidural now, rather than waiting so many hours and then having to cave in". She reassured me that, even though my labor with Rachel was going well, there was still "a long haul" ahead of us. I got the epidural and then they told me to stay put and rest for another hour or so. Here's the kicker... moments after Rachel's birth, my OB started telling me how she's so glad I took the epidural and was able to stay put and rest for a while, because she was down the hall delivering twins, via c-section. I laid there in the bed, holding Rachel (numb from the waist down, with a catheter in side of me and feeling quite nauseous and miserable) thinking "oh, great... I had those expensive, possibly dangerous drugs put into me so YOU could clear up your schedule and not feel rushed?" Wow. If this isn't a business, I don't know what is.

I was also very impressed with my friend's at home birth, after her baby was born. To see the very close and careful care her little baby received was... amazing. I was in awe of how much attention that little girl was shown. The midwife was very clued in and was sure to monitor her every breath, every movement, saving her cord blood, taking measurements, getting a good read on her heart, her lungs and overall color of her body. She was able to just sit there at the edge of the bed, watch baby nurse for the first time, see how mom was doing and handling the afterbirth and then stepped out to give the family some alone time. I went out into the kitchen with her, where I sat and watched her study the placenta that the baby had been living in, and let me tell you, she studied it like it was her final exam for a college course. I've never seen anyone give the placenta such careful examination. She and her helpers discussed how the labor and delivery went, they tested the baby's blood, kept records of everything and then I know they continue coming back to your home days and weeks after baby's birth, for more check-ups. I remember thinking "wow... I've never gotten this much positive attention in any of my births!" I only got attention during my labor and deliveries when I was A.) taking too long and annoying the crap out of the staff or B.) getting ready to push.
I really felt like my mind was changed on the matter of "is a home birth safe or not". I think in some ways, it can be safer than a hospital birth. Obviously not if you have complications and I understand that sometimes, you just don't know until you're in labor. For us, this is the reason Jason especially feels more comfortable having our babies in a hospital. His fear is always that something might happen in the midst of active labor and then you run the risk of needing to be in a hospital and possibly mother or baby dying in transit. Its a fear we've both had and so for us, we made sure with Kara's birth to have our birth plan written out and to be in as much control of the process as possible. Every couple has to come to their own decisions and be comfortable and happy with whatever decision they come to. It should never be forced on you, because when labor sets in, you want to be as comfortable and content in the situation you're in.

My OB was telling me that 90% of C-section deliveries are due to the mother getting drugs too early in labor, slowing things down and putting her own baby at high risk. She told me that its always been sad to her, because they go in with a very healthy baby and often come out with a baby in danger, due to their poor choices. This is an OB at Kaiser, who delivers more than 8 babies a day. That was hard to swallow.

Remember, my point in all of this is not to point out that some of you are wimpish. I don't think that at all. I do think some of you "modern medicine ladies" have negative, rude attitudes toward the amazing miracle of an all natural birth. Its not for you? That's fine. But why act so religiously apposed to women allowing their bodies to handle something it was created to handle? Again I would say, take your issues up with God.
I've noticed in the past 5+ years that the women who are all natural birth advocates are NOT the ones who ask "did she get an epidural?" after they hear someone has had her baby. I used to think they were the judgmental, totally invading personal space people. Instead I've found, its the pushy, negative people who think everything must be done the exact way they've done it.
They ask right away and if they hear "no, she was able to go drug free!" they frown and snicker and thus ensues a long (and heated) conversation about how utterly ridiculous that is. Implying the mother of that baby was really out to harm her own child. Go figure. Quite frankly, its an argument I've never been able to understand - even back in the day when I couldn't fathom delivering a baby without any drugs.

In closing, I just want to say that I think the world of women who do their best to have a healthy pregnancy, who spend 9 months making a good, safe environment for their little one. Some of you have had high risk pregnancies and I have watched and admired the way that you educated yourselves on knowing what the best course of action was for you and baby - to see how well informed you became and how you were able to care for your little one, either for the short time you had them or for the lifetime of Dr's visits, sleepless nights, worrying, waiting and wondering. You guys have my utmost respect and I watch you in awe.

I am not a hospital hater or a person who wishes Dr's and OB's would be put out to pasture. Not at all. I do however, think the mainstream attitude toward a God given ability, needs to change - starting in the church. I hope, if you haven't yet watched the movie, that you'll give it a go. Have an open mind before watching it - be willing to admit that God does know what he's doing and Dr's don't keep the world spinning round and round. If you can't do that... don't waste your time watching.

This is one of those subjects that could be hashed out for hours and hours, so I won't continue to bore you. I imagine if you've read this far, its because this is something you take an interest in. Otherwise you've probably given up after the first paragraph.
I'd love to hear comments on the subject and please remember that I've not said in any of this post that women who don't chose an all natural labor are doing it "the wrong way." Again, my point has been that I think the movie is only trying to prove to women that we "can" and should be able to feel free and welcome to have our babies in the atmosphere and way we chose.

I went back and forth about even posting this, but decided to just do it. Mostly because I was really avoiding this DVD and now I'm wondering how many of you have done the same.

For those of you who read this and then find humor and joy in pointing out that I have strong opinions on the matter... I'll do that for you now. Yes, I do. And so do you :)


Comments

Jodi said…
Great post -- one thing I will say is that I have three friends who have given birth at that new Kaiser, and all three went totally natural, so that stat that the nurse spouted is just plain wrong.

;-) I haven't seen the movie, and now I think I'll have to go see it! I hadn't really given it much thought, since we aren't having more kids, but it sounds like there is much more to it!
Stef said…
I did wonder how the nurse could know that, out of the whole hospital. I know we also got a special hat knitted for Kara (that typically only goes to NICU babies) and when we asked why they were giving her that hat they said "she's our 2nd all natural baby and you both deserve it!" So who knows... unless your friend's babies were born after Kara?

You should totally watch the movie - its so worth it!
Cindy Marsch said…
Good movie, great comments. I had four natural births in four different states with four very different circumstances (some "high risk"), and I'm so glad I did!

Now quit watching those shows on TLC. I saw a bunch this summer while on a business trip with hubby (I was working in the hotel room while he went to meetings) and could just about predict when we'd get a C-section. It's just a cascade of events, starting with induction or augmentation . . .
Stef said…
haha, Cindy! I gave up watching those baby shows after I took the birthing classes. Jason and I took a Bradley course and once we finished that, I couldn't watch those shows without acting like an irate football fan, screaming at my team when they were making stupid choices :)
Cindy Marsch said…
Bradley makes all the difference! Twice I had hospital personnel not believing I was really in labor or as far progressed as I was because I was "handling it so well." :-)
Emily said…
I went as long as I could without the epidural with Pepper, which ended up being 18 1/2 hours of my 20 hour labor. I loved being in control of my body throughout the labor. I opted to get the epidural toward the end because I was so exhausted. Even then, I requested the lowest dosage possible, and that was great. It took the edge off so I could sleep for a bit, but didn't paralyze me. My baby was born healthy and alert, and the epidural was completely worn off within about a half an hour. I will likely go the same route again if God blesses us with another baby. I have several friends who have had home births, several friends who have gone natural, and I totally respect them for that decision. I think the key is keeping an open mind to others' choices, and making sure your own choices are made after careful research and study. You are responsible for the outcomes of your decisions, so better choose wisely!
Stef said…
I think a lot of people miss the main points of the video. The people on it are not saying "if you have a c-section or use any type of drug then you didn't get to experience the right kind of child birth." I think its a video simply made to make us more educated and aware of what's out there; how midwives and birthing centers get bad reputations b/c the mainstream hospitals have turned childbirth into a booming business. That's all. I don't think less of a woman if she tells me she had a c-section or got the epidural. Like you said, Emily, we all have to make decisions that are best for us and for our situation. I think Rikki Lake's point through the entire video is simply to make aware and educate women.
Melissa Joy said…
I love how you preface this post. Cracks me up. You're totally right though. One of the most annoying controversial subjects of all time is about birth.
My one big opinion about birth: the family needs to do what is right for them.
That's it. :)
I've seen the movie a few times (would never have my hubby watch it though) and my dad was privy to lots of the materials used since he was on a screening panel for it in our county. So we have some inside info I wish they had included or worded differently.
Also realizing that not every hospital birth or every home birth is the same -- that's a good point. I am *positive* the hospitals they filmed in NYC were extremely different than the hospitals in my little town. That's something one of my friends grappled with -- she was so scared of hospitals b/c of the Business movie. So she ended up in our small town hospital, she was hugely relieved at the vast difference.
Like you say, the important thing to gather all your own information. And every family needs to do what is right for them. We aren't cookie cutters either. :) And remembering to respect differences is key. I am always so thankful when people discuss this issue with compassion and love towards one another instead of rolling eyes and snide comments.
Anyway. Good post. Way to stick your neck out. lol. :)
Stef said…
I'm thinking about giving Jodi, Cindy, Emily and Melissa a prize for actually reading this post. It is *long* and you guys are amazing to read through it.

Do you all like Starbucks? :)
Denise said…
It was a very long post, but it caught my attention since I will be giving birth again real soon. As for me, I am a huge fan of the epidural and wouldn't want to give birth anywhere else but the hospital. For the first time, I will be getting induced with this baby. I am asking them to induce my a week early, but I also have an ultrasound appointment next week to see how big the baby is. One of my biggest concerns and reasons in having the baby early is because of how big he could be. Brayden weighed a little over 10 lbs. and he broke his collar bone coming out and got stuck when his chest was coming out. I don't want to have to have a c-section because he is too big to pass through the birth canal so I would rather be induced a little early so I can have a vaginal delivery. Anyway, I have never heard of the movie you are talking about, but for me epidurals and hospitals are the way to go.
Stef said…
Hey Denise - that's why you'd need to watch the video! its also not all about how using hospitals or any type of intervention is "bad". The reason the video was made was just to educate women and to explain that home births and natural births are not bad. Its sad that one side seems to want to push hospitals and push drugs, but then act like the people who want to go at it all natural... there's something wrong with them. And even though most of us have had great hospital experiences, there are some very scary ones out there and there are women who have suffered b/c they've been "tricked" into thinking that's just the way it had to be, or that there's something wrong with their bodies :(

I'm sorry about Brayden - that had to be so scary! As far as being a huge fan of the epidural - that's great! If its what you want and what you've decided, I'm not sure anyone would argue that with you.
Cindy Marsch said…
Is there an inside joke about Starbucks? I love it myself and always try to find one on a trip. You see, we live 25 miles from the nearest store, inside a Barnes and Noble. We get to the "big city" (an exurb, actually) only once a month or so. :-)

Grande decaf with half-and-half and maybe a sprinkling of cinnamon
Melissa Joy said…
You know, seriously Stef, you now live in the birthplace of Starbucks. If you weren't an addict before, you will be now. lol. Have you been to the original one yet? :) My mom brought me a pumpkin spice latte the other day; oh wow. I had missed that. :)
And hey, something else I was thinking about... your comment about people who don't take birthing classes. You have every right to your opinion on that. So don't get me wrong. But we never took a birthing class. And we had the most wonderful, natural birth imaginable. (it was exactly what *we* needed.)
Instead, we read books and talked with friends and drew on experience from my mom (who was my "doula"). So I think being educated about giving birth (especially naturally) *is* important like you said, but I don't think *classes* are the only way (in my opinion, obviously) to obtain education/preparation. Just thought I'd throw that in there. :) I wasn't in any way offended by your comment. I just wanted to mention my experience, in case you had not thought of that angle. :)
Cindy Marsch said…
Melissa, you were just homeschooled in birth preparation. :-)
Krista said…
Hey Stef, long post. Geez. :) I also thought the movie was really well done, fair and balanced without being anti Dr's or hospitals. I have had both my kids in the hospital, one with a Dr and one with a Midwife. The impression I got from the movie was pretty much what you are saying Stef: that a woman knows instinctively how to give birth. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean there are never any complications and that is where Doctors come in. God gave us their medical knowledge for a reason, they do save lives! But, that doesn't mean that some Doctors have come to regard it as a business (meaning, everything on time, scheduled, in and out for the most convenience and in the most time efficient way possible).

I was told when I was dilated to 7cm, that I was not progressing "fast enough", and that I needed pitocin. When I asked (rather angrily I might confess) why in the WORLD I would need to be pushed along faster when I was so close to transition, she said very snottily "Well, I leave in 40 minutes. If you don't take it, then I won't be the one delivering this baby". So, I said "fine, give me someone else then." And that was that. Haha. Point is, she was pushing drugs on me not because she thought I was in some danger, or Elijah was, or that I was close to exhaustion and wouldn't be able to get through labor (Uh, yeah, far from it- I was sleeping in between contractions at this point!). It was only because she wanted to be able to leave work on time. Business. THAT is the point of the movie, I think. It is moves like that, completely unnecessary, that may have negative effects on you and your baby and for no good reason but that they are running a business.
Melissa Joy said…
Cindy, hahaha!! I needed that laugh right about now. :)
Stef said…
Wow - thank you, Krista! You get exactly what I was trying to say. I always think if I'm very clear and long winded, I can make my point better. Maybe I'm too long winded and open myself up for further arguments and distractions? :)
Yes, I agree. The Doctors are also there to make money. Its better for them if you use the epidural, get the PIT, or have a C-section. It keeps them employed! We received a letter from our OB when I was pregnant with Kara, explaining that if I decided to use a midwife (through Kaiser) it would potentially cause the midwife to lose her job or be relocated. The letter basically stated that Doctors will not lose their jobs over midwives, so if the hospitals start noticing all of us using midwives and only going to Dr's when we have high risk pregnancies, then midwives will lose their jobs, not Dr's. The letter was basically asking us to please continue seeing our OB until my last 4 weeks of pregnancy and then to go see the midwife, giving them both the chance to make money off of me. I know it sounds harsh, but that's the truth. Amazingly enough, the midwife services are way cheaper! I think our births have cost up to $15,000 and then if you look into having your baby at home or with a midwife/doula, its like $4,000+ out the door.

Melissa, I should have been more clear on the whole education vs. taking classes thing. I do think actually taking professional classes is very important. I believe its mostly important for the husband. Remember that this is a big important thing for our husbands, not just us! I was very thankful for the amount of information Jason was able to learn and the way he got a first hand look at what my body goes through and experiences. We were able to practice labor positions and techniques, having him being prepared to be the best labor coach he could be.
However, all that said, that was just our experience and I do not think that other couples can't have an amazing experience (like yours) without actually taking classes. However, I did notice that you guys were very prepared and educated. You didn't just say "I'm going all natural!" and then decide that was the way it had to be. You still educated yourself for the best, all natural experience you could possibly have. In our Bradley course, we even learned how to prepare and cope with last minute, emergencies, resorting in c-sections or baby having to stay in the NICU after birth.

After Ethan was born, I was told by my OB, my midwife and the Pediatrician that I should "never attempt to have a natural OR vaginal birth again." Their reason was that my pelvic bones were clearly too narrow and were not created to have ANY sized baby fit through them, in a safe manner. Ethan struggled badly coming out (took almost 5 hours to push him out) and when he finally came out, he had cuts and scratches down his head, he wasn't breathing, due to having the wind knocked out of him and he basically just looked beat up.
After they told me that, I though "Okay, makes sense. I don't want to put my next baby through the same thing."
I had a few kind friends that reminded me that, with a little more education and maybe understanding my body a little bit better, they thought I should try to have another vaginal delivery and see how it goes. Most of you know the end to this story. I had Rachel 17 months later and her labor was 5 hours, start to finish. I pushed for 30 minutes, she came out healthy and screaming :)
Stef said…
My point is this, if you just don't want to go through the pain and the connecting with your body that way, then just say it. Why not just admit, "I'd rather not." In my case, I wouldn't have been a horrible person had I decided to never have a vaginal, or natural birth again. No one would've blamed me! However, I took the route of getting more educated on the matter and figuring out how I could help my body with future deliveries so I wouldn't have to go through Ethan's experience again. Will that bad experience return with any future babies we have? Possibly. Will I consider myself a failure if I end up having to have a c-section? No.
Stef said…
Hi Gina!! :)

I loved how Rikki kept saying "I just wasn't happy with my first labor experience and really wanted to find out how I could make my future experiences better." Its education, at its best!!

I realized today that I look at Doctors and politics the same way. I'm so glad they're there and do what they do, because lets face it - sometimes we need them! However, I do not need them making all my decisions and running things for me. I am still an intelligent person and enjoy using my own brain and exercising my freedoms. Seems like sometimes something good and useful, can become too powerful and often tries to take away from the right of the citizen/patient.
laura said…
Alright Stef...you've done it now. :) I love your post, I'm so glad you wrote it! I've started many times and always chickened out. And now, since the comment I started for here is so dang long, I'm probably just going to post it on my blog as a separate post. But I wanted to say a few things.
1) It's not an either-or situation. You don't have to "hate" all doctors and hospitals or be under complete submission to them. It's more a question of discerning when it's time to call for intervention and when it's time to have faith in the body God created perfectly and without error, with the purpose of childbirth in mind. (We, not just our children, are "fearfully and wonderfully made.")
2) Education matters. Classes, books, however you can get it. Having goals and not backing them up with enough education to go into the delivery room and understand the dialogue going on around you about *your* body and *your child* is naive at best. With my first baby, we took classes that gave us enough of an understanding about the biology of birth that we at least vaguely understood the process and the options. Not nearly enough though - and we weren't even remotely prepared for how staunchly pro-intervention that hospital was (they have a 95% epidural rate, so most of the nurses had never even seen a woman give birth without one)
3) Your husband's education matters. This is where the Bradley method really gets it right. He's your advocate and the only other person in the room who truly has your interests and the interests of your child at heart. Every other figure present at birth represents other interests. That's just reality, it doesn't mean they can't serve your interests too, but there are other factors and sadly, sometimes they end up competing with you and your baby.
His knowledge of birth is every bit as important as yours, especially because most laboring women hit a point where they are not longer able to adequately articulate their needs and wants, or to advocate for themselves. Getting through those contractions is hard work. ;-) You need someone there who knows what you want and need and who isn't afraid to suit up and go to battle for it if necessary.
(to be continued)
laura said…
4) I've had two hospitals births, both epidural free. They were NIGHT AND DAY experiences. My first was a few mishaps short of awful. My second was downright magical (for the record, they both hurt like h-e-double toothpicks, so it's not like one was less painful). And it did matter to me! Both have had a lasting impact on me and, I believe, my children. You can argue that part is in my head, fine...but it did matter.
If you have any goals in mind for birth - be it a parking lot epidural or a completely non-intervention birth - it's up to you to do the legwork to make sure that the place you're having that baby is going to support those goals. ME walking into a hospital with a 95% epidural rate and saying "I don't want anything!!!" was ridiculous. NO one even knew how to really help me. With my second, we found a hospital with a midwife group that had a reputation for fostering natural, low-intervention birth experiences. And that's exactly what we had. The only intervention I had throughout labor was that they did do intermittent fetal monitoring and they did draw my blood upon admission. Other than that, they respected my request for no cervical exams (except once when I wanted to push), I didn't have an IV or a hep lock, I was allowed to move, my midwife and nurse and husband were all feeding me real (REAL!) food during labor...it was fantastic.
But we had to do the research and switch providers a few times to find that kind of care. It was up to us, it required our time, thought and attention, and the birth we had was 1000% worth all the work.

Bottom line - don't just blindly submit to things because the doctors or midwives say it's the thing to do. It's your body and your baby and it's your responsibility ("your" meaning you + husband) to do the research and do what's best for you. That might not mean a hippy-dippy natural birth...but whatever you choose, don't do it in ignorance! There's no such thing as informed consent unless you're the one informing yourself.
Melissa Joy said…
Here's another thing about this subject, since it's more where *I* keep ending up... I don't often get to give *birth* without intervention (because I don't often make it to third trimester). But delivering my first-trimester babies without intervention is almost just as hard (since I've done both, I can say that).
My midwife, my specialist doctor, the nurses -- all wanting me to schedule interventions like a d&c, before my baby's heart has even stopped beating.
Not that I am not passionate about full-term birth.
But the place where my husband and I have had to put these same principles into play (education, sticking to our guns, being our own advocates, caring for my body & our family & our babies to the best of our ability, trusting the body God gave me...) is a little different.
Just thought I'd point out the fact that it isn't only full-term deliveries of healthy babies where we need to use our heads.
It's in all of life.
In its joys and in its greatest sorrows.
Holly D. said…
Okay Stef, now I really want to see this movie!
I think all of you have some great points of view. I'm with you & Jason in that I like delivering in a hospital. Having all the "bells and whistles" right there is important to me.
Something that I found in my L&D nursing rotations is that women don't always realize that they have the right and power to say "no" to something being suggested to them. With Evan's birth, I was asked over and over if I wanted pain medication: no was the answer for over 24 hours. After that I did go with an epidural but only because Evan was trying to dislocate my leg and I already know how painful that it.
I also ended up with a c-section: however, the reason for it was Evan was in serious danger and I wanted a healthy baby after 32 hours of labor.
I too think that each women/couple has the birthing experience they want to have. In that, they make choices and they get the results for those choices.
Education is by far the best "thing" to bring with you into your labor. Classes, books, friends' advice. etc. It is imparative. However, I caution every woman I talk to that YOU, the one delivering, has to do what you think is best, not what I think is best.
I was told by my sisters that an epidural was the way to go: I decided to go natural for as long as possible. I was told to NEVER have a c-section because "you can't recover from them as well". I think that's a load of crap. I had 0 complications after my c-section and the only time I even notice my incision scar is when Evan is climbing on me and he digs his little toes in me: that would hurt even without the incision.

The 3 main things I think every woman needs to have for delivery are: 1) A thorough knowledge of ALL labor/delivery options and complications, 2) The person she feels can support her and her opinions, 3) Above all, rest in the Lord's Hands and accepting what He has ordained for her and her birth experience.

Melissa- I can't agree with you more on the issue of early births. For my pre-term birth, Kaiser begged me to have a D&C so I could "Get back to my 'regular' life". Unless you are having problems, then let your body deal with it as it is designed to do. As your body does what it's supposed to do, it also gives you the emotional time to start healing instead of feeling rushed to be "normal" again.

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box. Thanks Stef for posting this!
Stef said…
I love that this post has brought some of you "closet bloggers" out of the woodwork :)

Holly, thanks for the comment. I'm really appreciating all these different points of view and I think its great to hear about women's different life experiences.

I want to make a statement to you moms who've lost your babies either early on in pregnancy, or late in pregnancy, or shortly after their births.

The only reason I didn't even touch on that topic is because I have personally never been through that and because of that, I run the risk of either not being sensitive enough, or just being annoying, spouting off about stuff I have no idea what I'm talking about :)

You ladies have my fullest sympathy and I cannot imagine making those immensely rough decisions, but yes... I am fully aware of the blessings a good husband and a caring OB would be, during such a time. Praise the Lord, for His mercies even during the deep sorrow.
Erin said…
I had time to read this post & all the cooments today. Am I too late for the Starbucks prize?!
I think the main point of this movie is reality & one which we should not be naive to. But, I think it can go beyong hospitals & OBs. Some midwives treat birth in a business type fashion, too. We should just be wise to discern where we can get care, and not just be a business client! It was my original midwive who told us that we shouldn't bother with birth classes, once we found out that Gabriel had Anencephaly. It seemed like to me, in her thinking, if it wasn't an "ideal home, midwife attended birth, then nothing matters. It is already "bad" in her mind. We did have a RN/doula friend reach out to us with great love & gave us private birth classes. Even if the baby is not going to live, there are choices to make to make it the best enviroment for loving that babies life. And, choices to make for the sake of the mother's health & the future births of future children that you may have.
Stef said…
Erin, I think YOU should be the only one to get the Starbucks card, because you read through the post and ALL the comments :)

I so appreciate hearing from the perspective we don't always think about. Not many of us have experienced carrying our baby almost full term and then dealing with the sorrow of saying good bye so soon. I'm so sad about what your midwife said to you, what her advice was. Its just a very sad outlook on life. Like, if you can't have it just the way you dreamed of it, why put any thought or invest time at all? :(

It brings me to tears when I see God being praised and glorified, even when couples experience such anguish and grief. Every human life is a miracle and a blessing from the Lord and I think its heart breaking how desperately the medical field (in general) would like to lay low on that fact.

So, have we all learned that its best to be as educated as possible and not just from one side of the spectrum? :)

Thanks for this fun conversation, Ladies.
Julie Handel said…
Thanks for the post stef! I've watched the movie and really enjoyed it. Though I chose to go "natural" and loved my bradley classes my husband wasn't comfortable with a home birth so we signed up at Good Sam. One thing the movie doesn't really address is the Mothers possible need for hospital care. Leo came out just fine but afterwards I was hemorrhaging and very grateful for Dr, Nurses and hospital equipment!
Snooley said…
Thanks for the post stef! I've watched the movie and really enjoyed it. Though I chose to go "natural" and loved my bradley classes my husband wasn't comfortable with a home birth so we signed up at Good Sam. One thing the movie doesn't really address is the Mothers possible need for hospital care. Leo came out just fine but afterwards I was hemorrhaging and very grateful for Dr, Nurses and hospital equipment!
Holly D. said…
Okay Stef, now I really want to see this movie!
I think all of you have some great points of view. I'm with you & Jason in that I like delivering in a hospital. Having all the "bells and whistles" right there is important to me.
Something that I found in my L&D nursing rotations is that women don't always realize that they have the right and power to say "no" to something being suggested to them. With Evan's birth, I was asked over and over if I wanted pain medication: no was the answer for over 24 hours. After that I did go with an epidural but only because Evan was trying to dislocate my leg and I already know how painful that it.
I also ended up with a c-section: however, the reason for it was Evan was in serious danger and I wanted a healthy baby after 32 hours of labor.
I too think that each women/couple has the birthing experience they want to have. In that, they make choices and they get the results for those choices.
Education is by far the best "thing" to bring with you into your labor. Classes, books, friends' advice. etc. It is imparative. However, I caution every woman I talk to that YOU, the one delivering, has to do what you think is best, not what I think is best.
I was told by my sisters that an epidural was the way to go: I decided to go natural for as long as possible. I was told to NEVER have a c-section because "you can't recover from them as well". I think that's a load of crap. I had 0 complications after my c-section and the only time I even notice my incision scar is when Evan is climbing on me and he digs his little toes in me: that would hurt even without the incision.

The 3 main things I think every woman needs to have for delivery are: 1) A thorough knowledge of ALL labor/delivery options and complications, 2) The person she feels can support her and her opinions, 3) Above all, rest in the Lord's Hands and accepting what He has ordained for her and her birth experience.

Melissa- I can't agree with you more on the issue of early births. For my pre-term birth, Kaiser begged me to have a D&C so I could "Get back to my 'regular' life". Unless you are having problems, then let your body deal with it as it is designed to do. As your body does what it's supposed to do, it also gives you the emotional time to start healing instead of feeling rushed to be "normal" again.

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box. Thanks Stef for posting this!
laura said…
4) I've had two hospitals births, both epidural free. They were NIGHT AND DAY experiences. My first was a few mishaps short of awful. My second was downright magical (for the record, they both hurt like h-e-double toothpicks, so it's not like one was less painful). And it did matter to me! Both have had a lasting impact on me and, I believe, my children. You can argue that part is in my head, fine...but it did matter.
If you have any goals in mind for birth - be it a parking lot epidural or a completely non-intervention birth - it's up to you to do the legwork to make sure that the place you're having that baby is going to support those goals. ME walking into a hospital with a 95% epidural rate and saying "I don't want anything!!!" was ridiculous. NO one even knew how to really help me. With my second, we found a hospital with a midwife group that had a reputation for fostering natural, low-intervention birth experiences. And that's exactly what we had. The only intervention I had throughout labor was that they did do intermittent fetal monitoring and they did draw my blood upon admission. Other than that, they respected my request for no cervical exams (except once when I wanted to push), I didn't have an IV or a hep lock, I was allowed to move, my midwife and nurse and husband were all feeding me real (REAL!) food during labor...it was fantastic.
But we had to do the research and switch providers a few times to find that kind of care. It was up to us, it required our time, thought and attention, and the birth we had was 1000% worth all the work.

Bottom line - don't just blindly submit to things because the doctors or midwives say it's the thing to do. It's your body and your baby and it's your responsibility ("your" meaning you + husband) to do the research and do what's best for you. That might not mean a hippy-dippy natural birth...but whatever you choose, don't do it in ignorance! There's no such thing as informed consent unless you're the one informing yourself.
Stef said…
Wow - thank you, Krista! You get exactly what I was trying to say. I always think if I'm very clear and long winded, I can make my point better. Maybe I'm too long winded and open myself up for further arguments and distractions? :)
Yes, I agree. The Doctors are also there to make money. Its better for them if you use the epidural, get the PIT, or have a C-section. It keeps them employed! We received a letter from our OB when I was pregnant with Kara, explaining that if I decided to use a midwife (through Kaiser) it would potentially cause the midwife to lose her job or be relocated. The letter basically stated that Doctors will not lose their jobs over midwives, so if the hospitals start noticing all of us using midwives and only going to Dr's when we have high risk pregnancies, then midwives will lose their jobs, not Dr's. The letter was basically asking us to please continue seeing our OB until my last 4 weeks of pregnancy and then to go see the midwife, giving them both the chance to make money off of me. I know it sounds harsh, but that's the truth. Amazingly enough, the midwife services are way cheaper! I think our births have cost up to $15,000 and then if you look into having your baby at home or with a midwife/doula, its like $4,000+ out the door.

Melissa, I should have been more clear on the whole education vs. taking classes thing. I do think actually taking professional classes is very important. I believe its mostly important for the husband. Remember that this is a big important thing for our husbands, not just us! I was very thankful for the amount of information Jason was able to learn and the way he got a first hand look at what my body goes through and experiences. We were able to practice labor positions and techniques, having him being prepared to be the best labor coach he could be.
However, all that said, that was just our experience and I do not think that other couples can't have an amazing experience (like yours) without actually taking classes. However, I did notice that you guys were very prepared and educated. You didn't just say "I'm going all natural!" and then decide that was the way it had to be. You still educated yourself for the best, all natural experience you could possibly have. In our Bradley course, we even learned how to prepare and cope with last minute, emergencies, resorting in c-sections or baby having to stay in the NICU after birth.

After Ethan was born, I was told by my OB, my midwife and the Pediatrician that I should "never attempt to have a natural OR vaginal birth again." Their reason was that my pelvic bones were clearly too narrow and were not created to have ANY sized baby fit through them, in a safe manner. Ethan struggled badly coming out (took almost 5 hours to push him out) and when he finally came out, he had cuts and scratches down his head, he wasn't breathing, due to having the wind knocked out of him and he basically just looked beat up.
After they told me that, I though "Okay, makes sense. I don't want to put my next baby through the same thing."
I had a few kind friends that reminded me that, with a little more education and maybe understanding my body a little bit better, they thought I should try to have another vaginal delivery and see how it goes. Most of you know the end to this story. I had Rachel 17 months later and her labor was 5 hours, start to finish. I pushed for 30 minutes, she came out healthy and screaming :)
I love how you preface this post. Cracks me up. You're totally right though. One of the most annoying controversial subjects of all time is about birth.
My one big opinion about birth: the family needs to do what is right for them.
That's it. :)
I've seen the movie a few times (would never have my hubby watch it though) and my dad was privy to lots of the materials used since he was on a screening panel for it in our county. So we have some inside info I wish they had included or worded differently.
Also realizing that not every hospital birth or every home birth is the same -- that's a good point. I am *positive* the hospitals they filmed in NYC were extremely different than the hospitals in my little town. That's something one of my friends grappled with -- she was so scared of hospitals b/c of the Business movie. So she ended up in our small town hospital, she was hugely relieved at the vast difference.
Like you say, the important thing to gather all your own information. And every family needs to do what is right for them. We aren't cookie cutters either. :) And remembering to respect differences is key. I am always so thankful when people discuss this issue with compassion and love towards one another instead of rolling eyes and snide comments.
Anyway. Good post. Way to stick your neck out. lol. :)

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